|Joel Skousen Cautions Against Purported 'Defector' Accounts - Yes, there is a conspiracy, but divulging is not likely to come from defection from among the highest ranks. (12/26/02)|
|Mark and Cathy Phillips also Rebuff "Insider Defector" Account - First-hand survivor, Cathy O'Brien/Phillips, and Satanic Ritualistic Abuse expert Mark Phillips, diagnose "Slavi" as not having a full or stable recovery, and hence that her account is not to be considered factual. (12/27/02)|
By Henry Makow Ph.D.
www.savethemales.ca [see editor's note]
October 14, 2002
Posted here with permission of the author.
If you detect the devil's hand in current events, you may be closer
to the truth than you think.
A woman who was raised in the Illuminati cult describes a powerful secret organization
comprising one per cent of the U.S. population that has infiltrated all social institutions and is
covertly preparing a military takeover. Her revelations cast the "war on terror" and
"homeland security" in their true light.
"Svali" is the pseudonym of the woman, age 45, who was a mind
"programmer" for the cult until 1996. She was the sixth head trainer in the San Diego
branch and had 30 trainers reporting to her. She has risked her life to warn humanity of the
Illuminati's covert power and agenda.
She describes a sadistic Satanic cult led by the richest and most powerful people in the
world. It is largely homosexual and pedophile, practices animal sacrifice and ritual murder. It
works "hand in glove" with the CIA and Freemasonry. It is Aryan supremacist (German is
spoken at the top) but welcomes Jewish apostates. It controls the world traffic in drugs,
guns, pornography and prostitution. It may be the hand behind political assassination, and
"terrorism," including Sept. 11, the Maryland sniper and the Bali bomb blast.
It has infiltrated government on a local, state and national level; education and
financial institutions; religion and the media. Based in Europe, it plans a "world order"
that will make its earlier attempts, Nazism and Communism, look like picnics. One other detail:
these people are not happy.
Svali's courageous testimony explains why our children are no longer taught civic values,
why they are being habituated to homosexuality and violence, and why our "culture" is
descending into nihilism and sexual depravity. It raises the possibility that George W. Bush and his
Administration are Illuminists and much of the world "elite" is engaged in a mind-boggling
In March 2000, Svali began writing a
monthly column for survivors of Illuminati ritual abuse at Suite101.com. In December 2000, H.J.
Springer, the editor of CentrExNews.com contacted Svali and conducted an
extended 18-part interview with her by email, which is reproduced on line and is copyrighted.
"I am convinced she is the real McCoy," Springer wrote to me. "I have
personally relayed numerous email messages to her from other members ritually abused,
brainwashed, raped, sexually abused people & you name it-- some of them confirming to me her
story. So I have absolutely no doubt that Svali has been part of the Illuminati since
I also trust Svali's testimony because it confirms my intuition and intensive research.
Everything fits: from the dead hand that seems to suppress humanity to why Clinton gave secret
technology to the Chinese, to persistent reports of concentration camps in the US. It explains why
people I know behave in a conspiratorial way. I thank Svali for giving me a frightening but
incredible key to understanding the world.
A friend urged me to beware of a hoax and offered to help confirm Svali's personal story.
I accepted. I invite you to read her entire testimony and make up your own mind. Read "Part
One" to "Part 18" first, starting at the middle of the list and working up.
With their permission, here are some highlights of Svali's correspondence with
CentrExnews.com's H.J. Springer. I have also included material from her article "Are
the Illuminati Taking Over the World?"
Svali: "The Illuminati are present in every major metropolitan centre in the United
States. The Illuminati believe in controlling an area through its: banks and financial institutions
(guess how many sit on banking boards? You'd be surprised) Local government: guess how many get
elected to local city councils? Law: children are encouraged to go to law school and medical school.
Media: others are encouraged to go to journalism school, and members help fund local papers.
Svali: "The Illuminati is a group that practices a form of faith known as
"enlightenment". It is Luciferian, and they teach their followers that their roots go back
to the ancient mystery religions of Babylon, Egypt, and Celtic druidism. They have taken what they
consider the "best" of each, the foundational practices, and joined them together into a
strongly occult discipline. Many groups at the local level worship ancient deities such as
"El", "Baal", and "Ashtarte", as well as "Isis and Osiris"
and "Set".... I do know that these people teach and practice evil."
Svali: "Weishaupt did not create the Illuminati, they chose him as a figurehead and
told him what to write about. The financiers, dating back to the bankers during the times of the
Templar Knights who financed the early kings in Europe, created the Illuminati. Weishaupt was their
"go fer", who did their bidding."
Svali: "Briefly, each region of the United States has "nerve centres" or
power bases for regional activity. The United States has been divided up into seven major
geographical regions. Each region has localities within it that contain military compounds and bases
that are hidden in remote, isolated areas or on large private estates.
These bases are used intermittently to teach and train generational Illuminati in
military techniques, hand- to- hand combat, crowd control, use of arms, and all aspects of military
warfare. Why? Because the Illuminists believe that our government, as we know it, as well as the
governments of most nations around the world, are destined to collapse. These will be planned
collapses, and they will occur in the following ways:
The Illuminati has planned first for a financial collapse that will make the great
depression look like a picnic. This will occur through the maneuvering of the great banks and
financial institutions of the world, through stock manipulation, and interest rate changes. Most
people will be indebted to the federal government through bank and credit card debt, etc. The
governments will recall all debts immediately, but most people will be unable to pay and will be
bankrupted. This will cause generalized financial panic, which will occur simultaneously worldwide,
as the Illuminists firmly believe in controlling people through finances.
Doesn't sound pleasant, does it? I don't know the exact time frame for all of this, and
wouldn't want to even guess. The good news is that if a person is debt-free, owes nothing to the
government or credit debt, and can live self sufficiently, they may do better than others. I would
invest in gold, not stocks, if I had the income. Gold will once again be the world standard, and
dollars will be pretty useless (remember after the Civil War? Our money will be worth about what
confederate money was after the collapse).
Next there will be a military takeover, region by region, as the government declares a
state of emergency and martial law. People will have panicked, there will be an anarchical state in
most localities, and the government will justify its move as being necessary to control panicked
citizens. The cult trained military leaders and people under their direction will use arms as well
as crowd control techniques to implement this new state of affairs. ...Military bases will be set
up, in each locality (actually, they are already here, but are covert). In the next few years, they
will go above ground and be revealed. Each locality will have regional bases and leaders to which
they are accountable. The hierarchy will closely reflect the current covert hierarchy.
About five years ago, when I left the Illuminati, approximately 1% of the US population
was either part of the Illuminati, sympathetic to it, or a victim of Mind Control (and therefore
considered useable). While this may not sound like many, imagine 1% of the population highly trained
in the use of armaments, crowd control, psychological and behavioral techniques, armed with weapons
and linked to paramilitary groups."
Svali: "The national council [consists of] influential bankers with OLD money such
as: The Rockefellers, the Mellon family, the Carnegie family, the Rothschild family etc. I know I
shouldn't name names, but I will.
The "Supreme World Council" is already set up as a prototype of the one that
will rule when the NWO comes into being. It meets on a regular basis to discuss finances, direction,
policy, etc. and to problem-solve difficulties that come up. Once again, these leaders are heads in
the financial world, OLD banking money. The Rothschild family in England, and in France, have ruling
seats. A descendant of the Hapsburg dynasty has a generational seat. A descendant of the ruling
families of England and France have a generational seat. The Rockefeller family in the US holds a
This is one reason that the Illuminati have been pretty "untouchable" over the
years. The ruling members are very, very, very wealthy and powerful. I hope this information is
helpful. How do I know this? I was on a local leadership council (a head trainer), but I talked to
those on regional. Also, every Illuminati child is taught who their "leaders" are, and
told to take an oath of allegiance to them and the "New Order to come"."
Svali: "The Illuminati leadership state that they are descended from royal
bloodlines, as well as unbroken occult heritage.
See, there were two definitions of "royalty" used. Open royalty that is
currently seen now, and "hidden royalty" of royal lineage and extreme occult power.
Sometimes the two were concurrent, such as with the Prince of Wales.
I never thought of which country/line held the most power, since I was just a peon busily
doing my job. But my understanding was: The Hanoverian / Hapsburg descendants rule in Germany over
the Bruderheist. They are considered one of the strongest lines for occult as well. The British line
is just under them, with the royal family. Definitely, they rule the UK branch under the Rothschilds
in the occult realm, even though parliament rules the country openly.
In France, again, descendants of the royal families are also in power in the occult
realm, but the French Rothschilds hold the reigns over all of them."
Svali: "The U.S. is considered lower, and younger, than the European branches.
France, and the UK form a triumvirate that rules in the European cult. The USSR is considered
important, and has the strongest military groups. The USSR has been promised fourth position in the
New World Order, BEFORE the role the U.S. would have, because the USSR has been more helpful and
cooperative over the years with furthering the agenda.
The descendants of the former ruling families there are also involved in the occult
leadership, along with the newer ones. There is no Marxism in the cult. China will be ranked after
the USSR, then the U.S. But a lot of the current U.S. leadership will be in Europe when the change
occurs, and many have homes there. They will be "changing nationalities" overnight, as it
were. This is the little that I do remember. Wish I had been a better student of this stuff, but I
was too busy trying to stay alive when I was in it.
Russia will be the military base and powerhouse of the group, since their military
commanders (Illuminist) are considered the best in the world, and very, very disciplined. China,
because of its roots in oriental occultism, and its large population, will also be considered a
higher power than the US. But again, the real power will reside in Europe, according to what I was
taught when part of the group.
Svali: "The UN was created early in this century in order to help overcome one of
the biggest barriers to a one-world government ...That barrier is the one of nationalism, or pride
in one's country. This is why it was NOT a popular concept when first introduced, it took years of
country bashing in the media and the destruction of any sense of national pride by a (not so subtle)
media campaign over the years.
The UN is a preparation, but it is not the real power in the world, and will be
relatively unimportant when the NWO comes into being. The real councils will then step forward. But
as a means of getting the general public to accept the idea of a "global community" and
the "one world community" the UN is a stepping stone in their working towards the
Svali: "The conflict in the Middle East is only to the advantage of the Illuminists.
They HATE Israel, and hope one day to see it destroyed, and are biding their time. One of the olive
branches offered by the UN when it takes over is that they will prevent war in the Middle East, and
this will be greeted with joy by many.
At the same time, the Illuminati covertly supply guns and funds to BOTH sides to keep the
conflict fuelled. They are very duplicitous people. They used to funnel guns through the USSR to
Palestine, for example, in the name of promoting "friendliness" between the USSR and this
state and other Arab nations. Then, the US Illuminists would help funnel guns to Israel, for the
These people love the game of chess, and see warfare between nations as creating an order
out of chaos. The USSR is going to get stronger again. It has too strong a military both openly, and
covertly (ALL Illuminati military trainers have visited Russia to learn from them) to sit quietly
and quiescently to the side. In the NWO, they will be stronger than us."
Svali: "Absolutely not. In fact, Hitler and his people (especially Himmler and
Goebbels) were top Illuminists. The Illuminati are racist in the extreme, and as a child, I was
forced to play "concentration camp" both on my farm in Virginia, and also in Europe in
isolated camps in Germany.
The Jews historically fought against the occult (see Deuteronomy and the Old Testament
for how God through the Jewish people tried to cleanse the land of the occult groups that were
operating there, such as those who worshipped Baal, Ashtarte, and other Canaanite and Babylonian
(from an email to Henry Makow) Yes, there are some very powerful Jewish people in this
group. For instance, the Rothschild family literally runs the financial empire in Europe (and
indirectly the States), and are a well-known Jewish family. I have also known people whose parents
were Jewish diamond merchants in the group, and at every level. But to rise to power in the
Illuminati, a Jewish person at night would be forced to renounce their faith, and to give their
first allegiance to Lucifer and the beliefs of the Illuminati. In return for this betrayal, they
believe that power (financial) and rewards come; and in one sense they do, but at too high a price
(losing their eternal soul).
The nazi/concentration camp mentality is very strong, though, and I was told that Hitler,
Himmler, Goebel, and others were high-ranking German members of the group (Himmler was higher than
the other two), and Mengele their paid puppet as well, who later worked as a high trainer of the
American branch between his periods of hiding in South America. They honestly believed that they
were acting as agents of their 'gods' to exterminate the Jewish race, and I am so, so sorry that
this group has enacted so many horrors on the earth (and so, so glad that I left it).
I hope this helps you. I have always wondered this, though, why some of the highest
ranking financial families in the group (baron Rothschild of France is one of the 13 European lords,
or "kings" that run the group in Europe, and sits on the World Council) are Jewish, yet
the group espouses hatred of their own race."
Svali: "Lots of Illuminists have Fourth Reich programming inside. The Illuminati are
racist, and have a very "Aryan" outlook. They believe strongly in the rule of the
"pure" and "intelligent" by their definitions, and in their ceremonies, there
will occasionally be minorities killed in ceremonies.
They are trying to breed a "genetically superior" race to rule, with their
children and descendants. They are also followers of Plato's Republic, and believe that they will be
the ones to usher in this "Utopian" rule with the NWO in their opinion. In their Utopia,
the intelligentsia will rule, and the sheep like masses will follow their leaders (that is their
view of the world; that the occult leaders are "enlightened' and intelligent, while the average
person is a "sheep" to be led by the nose)."
Svali: "The Freemasons and the Illuminati are hand in glove. I don't care if this
steps on any toes, it's a fact. The Masonic temple at Alexandria, Virginia (the city itself was
named after Alexandria, Egypt, and is a hotbed of Illuminati activity) is a centre in the
Washington, DC area for Illuminati scholarship and teaching. I was taken there at intervals for
testing, to step up a level, for scholarship, and high ceremonies. The leaders in this Masonic group
were also Illuminists.
This has been true of every large city I have lived in. The top Freemasons were also top
Illuminists. My maternal grandparents were both high ranking Masons in the city of Pittsburgh, Pa.
(president of the Eastern Star and 33rd degree Mason) and they both were also leaders in the
Illuminati in that area.
Are all Masons Illuminati? No, especially at the lower levels, I believe they know
nothing of the practices that occur in the middle of the night in the larger temples. Many are
probably fine businessmen and Christians. But I have never known a 32 degree or above who wasn't
Illuminati, and the group helped create Freemasonry as a "front" for their
CIA FBI are all infiltrated. So are Mormons etc.
Svali: "Many of the administrators and directors at the FBI are also Illuminists.
The CIA helped bring over German scientists after WWII. Many of these were also Illuminati leaders
in their own country, and they were welcomed with open arms by the U.S. group. They also funneled
all information they were learning to the Illuminati.
The Mormons affiliated years ago in a meeting with Illuminati leadership in the 1950s.
The same with the Jehovah's Witnesses."
Svali: "Russia was never really a threat to us. Marxism was funded by the
Illuminati, and espoused as a counterbalance to capitalism. The Illuminati believe strongly in
balancing opposing forces, in the pull between opposites. They see history as a complex chess game,
and they will fund one side, then another, while ultimately out of the chaos and division ..., they
are laughing because they are ultimately beyond political parties. A top western financier will
secretly meet with an eastern or Russian "adversary" during those years, and have a good
laugh at how the "sheep" were being deluded. I am sharing here what I was taught, and also
They are truly an international group, and the group's agenda supersedes any
nationalistic feelings. There is also a lot of trading back and forth of members in these groups. A
Russian trainer might come to the US for awhile, complete a job, then go back, or vice-versa."
Svali: "Here is how it is done (how it was done to me):  When the child is 2
years old, place them in a metal cage with electrodes attached. Shock the child severely.
 Take the child out, and place a kitten in its hands. Tell the child to wring the kitten's neck. The child will cry and refuse.
 Put the child into the cage, and shock them until they are dazed and cannot scream any more.
 Take the child out, and tell them again to wring the kitten's neck. This time the child will shake all over, cry, but do it, afraid of the torture. The child will then go into the corner and vomit afterwards, while the adult praises them for "doing such a good job".
This is the first step. The animals get bigger over time, as the child gets older. They
will be forced to kill an infant at some point, either a set up or VR, or in reality. They will be
taught by age 9 to put together a gun, to aim, and fire on target and on command. They will then
practice on realistic manikins. They will then practice on animals. They will then practice on
"expendables" or in VR. They will be highly praised if they do well, and tortured if they
The older the child or teen, the more advanced the training. By age 15, most children
will also be forced to do hand to hand combat in front of spectators (high people who come to watch
the "games" much as the ancient gladiators performed). These matches are rarely done to
the death, usually until one child goes down. They use every type of weapon imaginable, and learn to
fight for their lives. If a child loses a fight, they are heavily punished by their trainer, who
loses "face". If they win, they are again praised for being "strong' and adept with
weapons. By the time they are 21, they are well trained combat/killing machines with command codes
to kill and they have been tested over and over to prove that they WILL obey on command. This is how
children in the German Illuminati are brought up, I went through it myself."
Svali: "They tell their children as they are torturing them, "I am doing this
because I love you." To them, the greatest love is to make a child strong, and fit to lead or
to move higher in the group, by whatever means it takes.
If a leader sees a child, and wants it as a prostitute, the loving parents will give it
away, happy that their child will rise in status. Also, again, they view betrayal as the greatest
good. They will do set up after set up to teach their children to never openly trust others.
I remember hundreds of agonizing set ups and betrayals, and hearing when I was betrayed
or wounded, "And such is the heart of man." Those doing this to me thought they were
teaching me something of value, that would help me. And because of the vicious and political nature
of the group, in one sense they were right; the naive get stepped on and wounded. I have known
parents who tried to spare their children some of this out of love, but often they were overruled by
other family members, who viewed these parents as "weak" and "unfit" to teach
Svali: "Most of them are wounded, abused victims, who don't realize that it is
possible to leave the group. There is a lot of discontent in the ranks, and there would be a mass
exodus if the members believed it were really possible to get out (and live). Many of the trainers I
knew (I know, wicked, torturing pedophiles) were NOT happy with what they did. They would whisper
quietly, or give a look, to show that they disagreed with what they had to do. They would resignedly
do their jobs, in the hope of advancement.
Know what one of the biggest carrots offered to those who advance up in the group is?
That you don't have to hurt people anymore, and that you can't be abused (it's true: only those
higher than you in the group can abuse you, so everyone wants to move up, where the pool of
candidates becomes smaller). Of course, people can choose to abuse anyone beneath them, and that
The Illuminati are a very political and back stabbing group, a "dog eat dog"
mentality; everyone wants to move up. These are NOT nice people and they use and manipulate others
viciously. They cut their eyeteeth on status, power, and money.
They never openly disclose their agenda, or their cult activities, as often they are
amnesic to them. These are well-respected, "Christian" appearing business leaders in the
community. The image in the community is all-important to an Illuminist; they will do anything to
maintain a normal, respected facade, and DESPISE exposure. ....
None of the Illuminists that I have known, had unkind, or evil appearing, persona in
their daytime lives, although some were dysfunctional, such as being alcoholics. The dissociation
that drives the Illuminists is their greatest cover ... Many, if not most, of these people are
completely unaware of the great evil that they are involved in, during the night."
Also, remember those studies that stated that "TV violence doesn't affect children's
behavior" years ago? Guess who funded them? They are a bunch of bullcrud. What a person watches
DOES influence them, and this is well known by the behaviorists in the group. In fact, they know
that TV is a tool that they purposely use to influence "the masses". It cannot create a
total personality change in the average citizen, but it can desensitize us increasingly to violence,
pornography and the occult, and influence the perceptions of young children.
I believe that Brittany Spears, Eminem, and others are being used by them to sing lyrics
they like (ever notice that he wears a Neo-Nazi look and sings hate lyrics? This is NOT by chance).
In fact, many of the top pop singers come from an internship with the "Mickey Mouse club"
(yep, good old Walt the Illuminist's Empire) and I believe they are offered stardom in exchange for
allegiance or mind control.
How many lyrics advocate suicide, violence, despair, or New Age spirituality in pop/rock
today? Or just get a copy of the words and read (but be aware that many are possibly triggering to
survivors of mind control).
Svali: "1. Their arrogance (I think I mentioned this before) is their weakness.
These people think they are untouchable, and this could make them careless.
2. If by a miracle, enough people took this SERIOUSLY and started organizing in some way
to stop the Illuminati take over, with prayer and God's guidance, perhaps they could be stopped. I
hope so, with all of my heart.
3. Stopping pornography and child prostitution and drug smuggling and gun running would
take out a huge chunk of their profits. Maybe they would slow down. But honestly, stopping the above
would be as difficult as stopping the group."
Svali: The evidence is there, but in my opinion, the average person does NOT want to
know, and even when confronted with it, will look the other way.
The Franklin case is a point. How much evidence has come out? Or the MK-Ultra documents
that have been declassified, shown as real, and people ignore it.
Okay, I'll get off my soapbox. But I believe that the media that downplays ritual abuse
is feeding into a deep need in the average person to NOT know the reality. In fact, how can a person
face the fact of great evil in mankind, unless they have either a strong faith in God, or are faced
with insurmountable evidence? We as human beings want to believe the BEST of our race, not the
I really don't believe people will do anything about the Illuminati even if they know.
Sorry for the cynicism, but it is based on a lifetime of experience.
The Illuminists don't care who prints this stuff, or if they are "exposed"
because they are counting on the majority not believing it, having done a pretty good job with a
media blitz campaign (seen any articles in Newsweek or Time lately that addresses this other than as
a laughable conspiracy theory? Guess who owns Time-Warner?).
I have heard them laughing about this very thing in leadership meetings five years ago,
and I doubt their attitude has changed much since then. If people DID believe this, if action could
be taken, then I would be very surprised and quite happy."
"Svali" is a registered nurse and freelance writer living in Texas.
is the inventor of the board game Scruples, and the author of A
Long Way to go for a Date. He received his Ph.D. in English Literature from the University
of Toronto. He welcomes your feedback and ideas at firstname.lastname@example.org.
This article is copied with the author's permission from http://www.savethemales.ca/141002.html
The following was written by Slavi in response to a particular question, and is posted here with Slavi's permission on Nov. 6, 2002.
Y ou bring up some important points in your
email: the importance to the Illuminati of bloodlines. This group believes that certain bloodlines,
starting with the Merovingian root, have strong occult abilities, and they literally honor those
with these bloodlines. In fact, it is impossible to be in Illuminati leadership without being able to
trace a direct descent to one of these bloodlines (this is why I had to be physically born in
Germany, and my father was of this line). The Merovingian line is the oldest, also the Hapsburg and Battenberg lines in
Germany (which are now Windsor in the UK) are some of the bloodlines that have strong occultic
ability, and are the highest in the Germanic branch, which I was associated with. I know that the
Rothschild family also traces their descent from the Merovingian at one point in France. I honestly have no idea of anyone who studies this, though; much of what I learned
was oral tradition, as part of the "family history" I had to learn as a child. In the
Illuminati, the people over Scholarship study and memorize these histories, but many of the
Scholarship teachers I knew as a child are older, or would deny their involvement if you DID
approach them now. (my brother is one, for example, but he would completely deny his involvement in
the group). I wish I knew of resources; probably online genealogy groups might have
information. Fritz Springmeier has an article on the 13 bloodlines, but he glosses over the European
bloodlines (which are the highest and most important today) and emphasizes the American descendants
in his document. While the Americans, who are descendants of the European, hold high seats in the
US, the real power base for this group is in Europe, and that's where the bloodlines that affect the
world today are located. Slavi
- 32° Knights Templar Rebuts "Illuminati Defector" Diatribe - "No such conspiracy exists," he asserts. (12/24/02)
- Joel Skousen Cautions Against Purported 'Defector' Accounts - Yes, there is a conspiracy, but divulging is not likely to come from defection from among the highest ranks. (12/26/02)
- Mark and Cathy Phillips also Rebuff "Insider Defector" Account - First-hand survivor, Cathy O'Brien/Phillips, and Satanic Ritualistic Abuse expert Mark Phillips, diagnose "Slavi" as not having a full or stable recovery, and hence that her account is not to be considered factual. (12/27/02)From: Jean SamuelsSent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 9:15 AMSubject: GTcontact
...Your website ... shows Prince William doing a hand sign. Your site claims it is a "familiar satanic signal".
What it looks like to me is the ASL (American sign Language) symbol for I LOVE YOU.
I went out on line to be sure, and all the ASL sites show this as the I Love You sign.
|Conspiracy to Establish World Socialist Dictatorship (Index)|
|Greater Things News Service - prophetic trends toward (temporary) global police state as prophesied|
|Editor's Note: I have to comment on a fitting paradox in conjunction with posting this piece by Henry Makow. At the time it was posted, it was featured from the header that appears on each page of the website. The featured item prior to this was the Mormon Goddess page. You can imagine my amusement when I saw the name of the website of the author of the present piece: SavetheMales.ca. This piece is about a woman who is saved from the abusive clutches of the New World Order insiders. (Sterling)|
Article posted here by SDA Oct. 24, 2002
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