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You are here: Greater Things > Constitution > Enough Tyranny?

Q. When is enough enough?
Insurrection vs. Tyranny

Have usurpers of freedom wrestled sufficient illegitimate control of America to warrant lethal insurrection against them by the militia enumerated in the Second Amendment?

Essay: When is enough enough?
Poll: have we reached that point?
Catalyst Message: The state of Justice and the Republic
Sign Declaration: A Modern American Declaration of Liberty
Index: Constitutional Studies
chat Discussions on 'When is Enough Enough?'
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bullet  Q. When is enough enough?

July 1, 2000

I received the following post today from the American Patriot Friends Network. If I read it right, it basically advocates taking guerrilla-like armed measures. It sounds to me like this person and the group he is with (however small/big they are) already have plans underway for lethal defensive measures and intend to implement them.

Right or wrong, if they were to do so on a large enough scale, they would escalate the very tyranny they oppose. Such is the nature of revolution. You push and the enemy pushes back.

My question to you all is "when is enough enough?" Are these people acting prematurely? How far do the enemies of freedom have to go before we are considered to be in a state of war in which armed resistance is justified morally in the sight of God? According to the writer below, we have already reached such a state. (Though he does not explicitly say so, his words imply it.)

The Declaration of Independence written by U.S. Founders gives a listing of grievances that to them stated unequivocally that Great Britain had gone too far and that now it was not only a right but a duty to throw off their tyranny.

Back in 1990, I helped compose a document called the "Declaration of Restoration" which shows the parallels between then and now and basically says, "We're there again," though not going so far as to promote armed insurrection against the tyranny.

The reason the Jews were so effectively rounded up and executed by the Nazis is that they usually didn't decide things had gone too far until it was too late.

One of the discoveries I made in my 144,000 document was that those who will compose the 144,000 are not just people who come to sit when God has set things straight, but they will have taken an active part in setting things in order, serving as the arm of the Lord, both religiously and politically.

So I restate my question, when is enough enough?


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By the way, I thought you might find the following resource to be interesting. It is a listing of militia groups by an anti-militia site. Quite an impressive list, though the racial bigotry that is represented by some of the groups is very unfortunate.

According to the scriptures, one should not take armed measures proactively but only defensively. The enemy must fire the first shot, so to speak.  And on top of that we have the exacting injunction to turn the other cheek.

With that in mind, we then ask, has the first lethal shot been fired? Do we just look within our own family or do we look within the community? Do we just look within our own community, or do we look nationally? Do we just look within our own nation, or do we look internationally? In other words, in the spirit of "mind your own business," what is "our business," keeping in mind that we are our brother's keeper?

What about my friend who is imprisoned for his tax protestation stance -- given a more rigorous sentence than a rapist or murderer? What about Waco? What about Ruby Ridge? What about the imprisoned and murdered patriots in other countries? What about the string of dead bodies surrounding the Clinton administration?

Whose causes do we take up? How? When?

It seems to me that each of these "situations" has a context and scope of its own, though some are intertwined.

So let me ask again in more specific terms. Has the United States of America gone too far in destroying and jeopardizing freedom? Have they fired the first shot? If so, what was that shot? Why does it rise to the level of being sufficient cause to impel the entire patriot community to be justified in rising up in insurrection against the tyranny that is being gradually placed upon us?

If that shot hasn't been fired yet, what would be a sufficient "shot" in the future to warrant such insurrection or revolution?

Certainly the imposition of martial law and the requiring of people to take the mark of the beast by force would be sufficient cause. But does it have to get that bad to be bad enough?

I've long maintained that the rounding up of weapons would be an act of war sufficient to warrant armed insurrection, for it takes from the people the last means of defense against tyranny. It is therefore the last straw.

But what about the steps leading up to the confiscation of guns -- steps such as required registration of all gun purchases, which steps enable the confiscation of guns in lightning raids that preempt the opportunity for armed resistance? Are not such measures therefore the equivalent of actually confiscating guns?

So while the confiscation of guns, or equivalent measures, is a sufficiently tyrannical move to justify insurrection, is there an act of aggression of a lesser severity that nevertheless rises to the level of being sufficient to warrant insurrection?

Have we already reached the point where armed insurrection is justified and we just haven't realized it, or is the following post from the American Patriot Friend's Network premature and therefore out of line?

For freedom to flourish, God must be sovereign. God is not honored when rules of righteous protocol are violated. At the same time, neither is God honored when tyrants flourish.

Where are we? According to righteous principles, have the tyrants gone far enough to warrant our insurrection against their illegitimate rule?

Perhaps the question is not answered by pointing to one deed in particular -- a singular "shot," per se -- but rather should be looked at in terms of a large number of grievances, such as were lodged by our Founding Fathers against the tyranny of Great Britain.

Ten years ago, some friends and I provided such a list of grievances -- a list that has only escalated since that time.

Back then, armed insurrection was not yet expedient. The might of the pen was yet sufficient to resist the encroachments upon our freedom.

Is that still the case?

We must not wait so long that we are no longer able to act. But we also must not act prematurely, for we must have the blessings of God in order to triumph.

Perhaps the question is not even whether or not the tyrants have gone too far, for perhaps they reached that point a long time ago. Perhaps the real issue is whether or not the patriots are ready to stand with God sufficient to overthrow the usurpers of freedom and replace them with people who will uphold principles of freedom. Maybe God has been waiting on us.

Some prophecies indicate that the tyrants destroy each other and the humble followers of God then are all that is left, having been miraculously preserved.

Maybe socialist America wants exactly what it has right now and deserve the attacks from Russian and China and other Frankenstein nations that our tyrants have helped to establish and strengthen through their treason while American citizens watched on. But those things are likely to happen regardless because of how far things have progressed in that direction.

If the patriots act, they had better have very strong reasons for having done so, for otherwise the blame for the ensuing chaos and bloodshed will be leveled on their heads. But if they don't act soon enough, the ensuing chaos and bloodshed will likewise be answered on their heads.

They must act with strong assurance that they are justified in doing so, otherwise their cause will not have sufficient moral rectitude to inspire the heroism and miracles that will be required in returning this nation to a nation of freedom which will eventually fill the whole earth.


Sterling D. Allan
Brian Gibson

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bullet  Catalyst Message

{with spell check applied}

----- Original Message -----
From: "American Patriot Friends Network" <>
To: "American Patriot Friends Network" <>
Cc: <>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 5:06 PM
Subject: Fwd: The state of Justice and the Republic


Subject: The state of Justice and the Republic
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 15:23:49 -0700 (PDT)

Bringing Clinton to justice- With all the talk
of the New World Order, one world government,
Chinese thefts of security technology, the
failure of the senate and congress and the over
stepping of the judiciary and now this latest
"suit" in a long list of suit- all I have to say
is this. The time has nearly come, where justice
has been replaced with anarchy. Right now it is
just political anarchy. Well let me say this.
I am not the least bit scared of the times we live
in. What goes around almost certainly comes around.
That is why I always treat people the best I can
under the circumstances. But at some point justice
has to be administered. In our case, I highly doubt
if this disbarment means anything to any of these
people. Clinton will go on to live near Oxford
England I am almost certain, until he gets bored of
that. His wife is still a virtual problem that will
not go away. Now let me tell you a secret about
martial law. We really live under martial law,
it is just not as bad as say Northern Ireland.

The thing about martial law is that under such
a circumstance it is actually military commanders
that execute justice. In our case, the military
does very little and enforcement of policies (illegal
or not) comes from judges and the alphabet soups.
That is because for now things can still be controlled
by this imposter regime of a police state. When
things break down as they have done in Seattle and
Washington, D.C. and Los Angeles, etc. enforcement
will come through military tactics or what most
people see as martial law.

Now this is the secret. Under such a circumstance
victory does not go to who has the law on their side,
but who can muster a win on the battle field.
Those who rule in a military court one day (the
field commanders), may surrender the next.

If and when any of these so called commanders go
against me and my own, they will surrender. I
will drive a bloody stake through their heart
if they don't.

Those who were unjust (like all the politicians and the
king's men) will answer to new commanders and new
judges in new courts of law. Those who committed
treason will be hanged. The secret service will not
help these politicians any more than the secret
service helped the Shah of Iran, or they too will
be lined up and executed. I don't care
how many agents they bring on and under what
types of computers they are trained. What I am
writing is an open letter to all people. I know of
many honorable people who do not need the help
of secret police for their very survival. Only do
American presidents of the caliber
of Clinton and Bush, etc. etc. need constant body
guards as do the elite who sit in secret meetings
in the Bilderberg and Trilateral commission. They
need their body guards and others to protect them
from the citizenry while they work on their secret
plans in dark places. However, one need only review
the history of 1978-9 to see exactly what I mean
about the tides of politics turning badly on the status
quo as in the Iranian example, it was not a pretty sight.
So choose sides wisely. Some of us are not as nice as
our otherwise gracious personalities would suggest.

That goes for anyone and everyone who has anything
to do with politics as usual. The police, the military,
the judges, the mayors, the agencies, etc.
etc. etc.. tread lightly in your work. That would
have been good advice for the German S.S... some
of us take very good notes. And if you think
we will be easily beaten you are deadly wrong. So
while I might fear for my own life, and that of people
I know, just remember one thing. If you are on
the opposite side of the fence YOU DAMN WELL BE

Let's hope that the Arkansas panel actually gets
somewhere in their duty of bringing justice to
a tattered legal system. But let's not hope to much
that anything at all will come of it. Only when
we bring the debate into the light of day and have
true representative democracy under the rules of
law as provided for in a responsible Republic can
we have peace. As long as our children are corrupted
under an impoverished education system, our politicians
bought and paid for by corporations and drug dealers,
our laws based on fraud and manipulation with no
regard for constitutional principles, then we can
not have peace. That is the bottom line. So don't
cry, when people get hurt.

Since we are already in a military court system
under the guise of freedom, then let's bring on the
military courts. I am all for it. Let's take
the battle to the military. If America's military
is the best under the leadership of evil commander's
and chiefs, then bring the military to me and
let's see who comes out on top!

Let's dispose of the criminals wearing stars as
well as the politicians who wear suits! I will take
your NCO's from you, make them my own commanders
of troops, and then try your generals in my own
courts! How does that sound for the fools running
the show?

So let's strip away this political charade and
observe the facts as recorded in the books-
The records of Congress and elsewhere. For
example, let's make the IRS prove that the fraud
they have perpetrated is not true! Let's make
the Federal Reserve bank open its true intentions
to us when they raise interest rates and defraud
our citizens of their wealth. Let's re-examine
the auspices of the World Bank and International
Monetary Fund, and let's just see if the World
Court has any authority over any of us AT ALL?

If we can not have well organized republics
where citizens can find safety through the social
contract then we will have anarchy. Clinton
is just one small example where the constitution
and rule of law has failed us. Where Congress
has failed us.

We will replace anarchy through military tribunal.
That is the only way. If the generals too are corrupt
(and they are), then they must be replaced on
the battle field though surrender. We must put our
guns to their head as they would have done to us.

Soon, I see it in the cards, where mass demonstrations
in this country will have to be replaced through
battle's where POW's are taken-- it is unfortunate
and you can not blame me, you can only blame the
politicians who, for what ever reason, would not
see the truth or decided to deceive themselves into
a further path of oppression in order to prop
themselves up. Like their comrades in Cuba and
the "people's republic" of China.

We can choose to look at the destruction of civility
as a bad omen that interrupts our lives (which it
does) or a necessary part of bringing justice to
the equation. Having the appearance of justice
alone is not enough. The attorney general of the
U.S. Janet Reno has the appearance of justice just
like the NAZI S.S. had the appearance of justice
and law and order. But that is an order that will
not be accepted by those who love freedom and
appreciate good government over bad corrupted and
dying government.

The government has the guns, and the devices and the
people to carryout their fraud and perpetuate
their existence, but sooner or later I believe that
justice always prevails. For this reason, arms
were left in the hands of the common people.

"The power of the sword, say the minority of Pennsylvania,
is in the hands of Congress. My friends and countrymen,
it is not so, for THE POWERS OF THE
SIXTEEN TO SIXTY. The militia of these free commonwealths,
entitled and accustomed to their arms,
when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous
and irresistible. Who are the militia? are they not
ourselves. Is it feared, then, that we
shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom.
Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their
swords, and every other terrible implement of
the soldier, are the birthright of an American. What
clause in the state or [federal] constitution hath
given away that important right. . . . [T]he
unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of
either the federal or state governments, but where
I trust in God it will ever remain, in the
hands of the people."

[A Pennsylvanian, To The People of the United States,
Philadelphia Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.]

A yeoman, by the way, is a clerk or common administrative
personnel (usually in the Navy).
In this case, a yeoman is a common worker in
America at large.

Yep, that is my views too on the 4th of July!

This is the strategy that wins wars even to today.
The bad blood must be chopped off at the highest
ranks. The American Rifleman had this down to
an art form. So while the patriot troops are
small in number the same strategy must come into
play in future wars. Avoid direct campaigns where
the status quo forces are well entrenched and capable
of major blows, and give 'me hell on the periphery.

Harassment from behind the lines, using public
opinion and public confrontations (demonstrations),
building networks of reliable persons, passing
valuable communications to the outer edges, surprise
moves and tactics (which are under plan right now),
removing money from the status quo's political
process, educating the populace to understand what
is the truth and what is falsehood, dividing the
elite and sowing seeds of mistrust, taking the
initiative on the battle ground and taking advantages
of opportunities, decentralizing command and giving
responsibility to junior people, building units
and cells based on camaraderie, sweating, and stockpiling
will all pay dividends on the eventual
outcome of a conflict. Right now, the two major
political parties must be the center of aggression.
They might tell you that the correct method of
political persuasion is to join them. That is a
certain road to failure and disappointment, because
the facts of history are NOT on their side as the
fraud would have you believe. True, one of them
will become the next president of the fraud at
large. It doesn't matter because they are increasingly
presiding over fewer and fewer ardent supporters.

In the end we will need to reform under the
Republican local form of government in order to prevent
going deeper and deeper into chaos and resentment or
tribalistic warfare and all but destroying our economy
and ability to succeed and make our selves happy with
the luxury that we have come to
enjoy and take for granted as a modern people. That
is the hope for the end of the struggle, but
regardless, the struggle will go on and can not
be prevented. We must now decide how to manage it
without loosing our sanity and purpose in the
process. Fortunately, we are not the first presented
with these vexing problems. By turning to the
original intentions of self government and being
disciplined we can prevent making some of the
same mistakes twice. Truly the best road to take
is the same road offered in the founding ideals
and bill of rights. We must shun those who are
traitors such as Bill and Hillary Clinton with
the utmost passion and bring the evil law breakers
to justice as if our own life depends on it. Because
it does. We must do the same to all politicians
who are attempting to sell out the founding ideals
of the Republic and the separate Republics who
make up the current state's of the union. Anything
short of a major political upset will lead to
war, chaos and martial law. That is the only way
justice can come about. I am waiting to see what
happens next with the utmost curiosity, ready
and primed implements of war, a flag of justice
to hold martial court, and an absolute mean-ness
that will make Clinton look like a choir boy in
the event such actions are warranted. Either some
semblance of political order and fairness comes
to this system, we start acting like human beings
in need of education and enlightenment instead
of test tube bionics in need of new arm grafts
thanks to science, or I will do my best to bring it
all down. There is nothing that says I have to
accept the globalist' s plans of biogenetics, and
humans without souls or any of the other lab work
that is being conducted without our knowledge.
In fact, how do we know this is not a ploy to
create bodies for the brigades of Satan's followers
that don't inhabit them now? Didn't Christ send
a bunch of evil spirits into the bodies of pigs
that then ran over a cliff as in the bible writings?
Is the latest work of the world's scientists
life saving help for us humans or an attempt to
alter the universe? Perhaps this is off the subject
of the patriotic theme of government, but just one
more reminder that yours is up to no good!

Destroying an enemy that is without honor or good
intentions is not a crime but an act of personal
and genetic survival guaranteed by the grace of God
to all real men that came to this planet, and I am
a real man born as a spirit child of that same God,
who came here in the flesh. Further guaranteed
on the bill of rights, and in the ethical writings
of our western philosophers and forefathers, ready
to kick ass and take names as the situation may
warrant- and the situation almost warrants it.

Come what may.

Randy Miller

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote
on what to have for lunch, Liberty is a well-armed
lamb contesting the vote. -


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bullet  Discussions on "When is enough enough?"

@ David's Outcasts e-group
Persecution strengthens character; what we need is prayer and repentance - Mark Thomase
We've been close to the flash point for a long time - [name withheld]
What is holding us back most is lack of unity among the patriots - Blayne Sukut
Remember  Ghandi's example: peaceful civil disobedience - Ren Carter
Isn't there another way? - Susan Carter
First shot was 1973 Roe v. Wade - Greg Fawcett
Citizens have what they want; would only play into enemy hands - Frank Redmond
We are not looking for a majority - Blayne Sukut
@ American Patriot Friends Network message board
@ Greater Things discussion board (Delphi). Log on as a guest or as a registered user.
@ Give Me Liberty forum
If we enter another revolution, I see only two outcomes (1) freedom or (2) death, for I will not accept bondage. - John
@ Conspiracies and Extremism forum --
@ The Militia Speaks forum
Other Greater Things discussion options

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bullet  See also

Declaration of Independence Parallel to Today
The Law (Constitution) and the Word (Gospel) of the Lord: Our Duty and Our Quest - See chiasms and parallels of this talk too, as they are relevant and enlightening.
Declaration of Independence Chiasm
Ether 4 Chiasm - Prophecy regarding secret combinations in all nations and one in particular that will rise to power in these latter days.
Birth of U.S. Foretold in the N.T. Greek Lexicon - Words 1770 through 1792 in the New Testament dictionary lend commentary on the years of the birthing of the United States of America.
Maritime Admiralty Jurisdiction Conspiracy Foretold in my Voter ID Number - Words and pages relating to 13864 in Bible lexicons and English dictionaries prophesy maritime admiralty jurisdiction usurping the Constitution as supreme law of the land.
Parallels Between the Constitution and Mosiah's 'Voice of the People' Government in the Book of Mormon
Suggested Readings (dated 1989)
Government & Constitution department:  Greater Things Bookstore

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bullet  Related Sites

Documents dealing with the justified insurrection question
A Modern American Declaration of Liberty (sign petition)
Declaration of Independence Again Today -- Libertarian
When Resistance to Tyrants is a Religious Duty - Classic Essay by Founder Jonathan Mayhew
A.R.T.R.O.C. America Ready to Restore Our Constitution
List of Militia sites by anti-Militia watch dog - "The largest site on the web devoted to monitoring the militia and 'sovereign citizen'/common law court movements." -- The Guardians command center

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