The One and Only 'One Mighty and Strong' Affliction
Follow-up dialogue from "ONE
Mighty and Strong -- a Quorum United."
Jared (and others),
My comments in reply to you are interspersed below.
Jared's comments are set off by the ">"
My previous comments are set off by "> >"
My current comments have no indentation.
First, I reciprocate your appreciation that we can have this dialogue in a
gentlemanly fashion rather than getting heated, for such discussions tend to
be that way.
I will be linking to this comment from:
http://www.greaterthings.com/JaredSmith/
where the dialogue leading up to this exchange is also found.
Sterling
----- Original Message -----
From: <jared@purpleturtle.com>
To: <davids_outcasts@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 9:27 AM
Subject: [888] Re: Jared and John the Baptist
> As for me, having seen lives ruined by idle speculation on
> this topic.
Me too.
> I will accept nothing less than pure revelation
> from God.
That, of course is a wonderful objective. But we all know that the price for
receiving is asking. Coming to a full revelation isn't always instantaneous
but rather comes a step at a time. I believe that even Jesus' mission was
unfolded to him in mortality that way, and that he didn't know in full what he
was supposed to do until he had accomplished it in full.
> Show me where your
> beliefs are based on an authority higher than yourself, and
> I will be able to consider them.
Chiasms and parallels and alphabetics word-number studies are based in the
text of the scriptures and require each individual to have revealed to them
personally the significance of what is there. I offer my take on what they are
showing, but I think one would have to be a world class skeptic to say there
is nothing there of merit to consider, or that these things don't have
anything to do with an unfolding of the topic at hand.
> As one who accepts the messages, I am commissioned
> to make that book available, not to defend it.
That seems odd to me. Lukewarm. Maybe I'm not catching your full meaning.
> What I am
> here defending is the fact that I am no claimant to the
> title of one mighty and strong.
Not directly, but you state very clearly that John the Beloved is, and that
you are at present his spokesman. He himself is not here in the flesh doing
the work. You are claiming to do it on his behalf. You ask us to remove you
from the picture, but you are what we see, and the words are coming through
you. Yes, it is reasonable for you to have us measure the words independent of
yourself. Very reasonable indeed. But it is not reasonable for you to separate
yourself from this mantle of "one mighty and strong" when you are
standing as the spokesman. I will hand it to you, though, in saying that it is
noble indeed of you to deflect the praise and attention from yourself, and
direct it to who you believe to be the source of these writings, John the
Baptist, and ultimately to the Lord who is hopefully the one behind this.
> In the
> messages, John the Baptist clearly cuts through speculation
> and declares that he fulfills several prophecies, including
> the one mighty and strong one.
There you said it as plain as could be (as you intended).
> I do not worship
> the book, and can quickly point several flaws out to you,
> which you have not noticed.
I applaud you for acknowledging that there are flaws, which places the onus of
responsibility back on the shoulders of the reader who is to discern all
things for him/herself.
> Please
> distinguish me from that book. What you are saying is
> akin to someone saying you believe that _you_ are
> the fulfillment of prophecies regarding Jesus
> Christ because you believe in the Bible.
This analogy does not work. I never said I wrote the Bible (though I do
believe that many if not all of us in this forum helped from the other side).
You are the one who put the words in print onto the paper for others to read.
You are acting as an Isaiah of the Bible or as a Matthew.
There is a huge difference there.
Do you think Isaiah could get away with saying he takes no responsibility for
what he wrote because he was just writing the word of the Lord?
Hardly.
Nor do you get off the hook of accountability in this case, since you are
claiming that John the Baptist is dictating his message through you to the
world at this time.
> Jesus is your Lord, and thus you represent him,
> but you are not him, nor will you accept anyone claiming
> that you are him.
No, but part of "taking on the name of Jesus," is being willing to
walk as he walked, talk as he talked, etc. And your case in relation to John
the Baptist is an extreme manifestation of this principle.
> The messages consistently call me away from contention,
> into humility, gentleness, and into love.
That's good.
> Thus, the pride of Ephraim _is_ broken in me
> as I continue to read this book and pray for the humbleness
> which it teaches.
That is good too.
> I am delighted in the fact that John
> the Baptist accepts the title of one mighty and strong--
> this way, I need look for no "man" or "group of men"
to
> fulfill the prophecy.
What you are saying here is akin to what the Mormon church and other religions
say of themselves, namely that your way is the one true way. John the Baptist
(speaking through you) is the One Mighty and Strong, and there is no other.
That is why you don't accept my model that says (1) that there are many ones
mighty and strong who are to work together as a quorum seeking for unity in
the spirit of the body of Christ in bringing to pass a great and marvelous
work, and (2) that I myself and probably most everyone on this forum is
numbered among them, and that ultimately the entire quorum of 144,000 are
given the title, "ONE mighty and strong," because of their unity in
the Lord.
In other words, I'm wrong because John the Baptist is the one (for whom you
are a spokesman), and there are no others.
I've not read all of the writings of which you speak. I've only read a small
portion. Apparently John the Baptist (via you and the two previous spokesmen)
has said this of himself (through you, which, gratefully, implies a filter
bias that we have the full prerogative to discern and refute).
> It is clearly in the hands of God,
> not man. But only by faith do I know these things. And
> what I know by faith cannot be argued against what you
> know by study.
What I know/believe is also by faith as well as study.
> > Third, as part of this scenario with John the Baptist,
> > as mentioned in the introductory material to "the Word
> > of the Lord," it is said that John the Baptist is the
> > "one like unto Moses" who Moses prophesied would come
> > in the last days, and all who would not hearken to his
> > words would be cut off from among the people. Again,
> > you not only link to this introduction, but make
> > statements of affirmation to this idea in your own
> > introductory writings if I recall correctly.
>
> True. At no time do I declare this about myself or my
> own writings. I am a servant of others, yearning for,
> not contending against. The reason that is included in
> the introduction is because John the Baptism declares
> it, and so it is not a claim made by the fruit of study,
> but by the fruit of faith.
That's pretty plain.
I'll tell you right now that there are probably some thousand others on this
planet who are making claims very, very much like this one, which draw the
focus upon the dude/duddette that they are claiming to represent or sometimes
themselves as epitomizing the ultimate culmination of God's work on the planet
at this time. Either they are confused or God is, and I don't think that the
latter possibility is the case. Yet, each one holds tenaciously to the believe
that their thing is where it is at -- as if to deny this would cut them off
from the grace of God. My what a hold their paradigm has on them.
What I was trying to get at in my post about "ONE Mighty and Strong is a
united quorum," is to get people like you, and these thousands of others,
to realize that there are others like you and that you are not intended to
work alone as if the one and only, but that you are to work together,
supplementing and synergizing rather than dividing and contending.
> > Fourth, after this initial person died, another took
> > his place. He died, and that left a void. On your website
> > you say that you are the third, and now take his place
> > as a conduit for these messages that John the Baptist
> > has to impart to the world. You don't claim to have
> > seen him, or even heard an audible voice, but rather
> > he dictates to you in your spirit and you write in
> > faith. Yet, the verbiage of those writings is that
> > they are indeed the words of John the Baptist, and that
> > they are binding on the world.
>
> When you receive revelation from God, you have no desire
> to question whether it is true. Please understand that
> I am a person just like you, as flawed as any, and that
> to judge revelation I write by my actions would mean that
> you are "respecting the person," which I run away from.
I understand the sentiment about not wanting to question the revelation. But I
know from personal experience and from observing the experiences of others
that because we are not perfect filters for the word of the Lord, it behooves
us to accept the fact that there will be flaws in our interpretation of what
God gives us as 'revelation.' The purpose of recognizing that we are part of a
very large plan, and being willing to work together with others similarly
called, is that such flaws can be overcome by the strengths of others assisted
by the grace of God, which helps us be humble -- one of the cardinal
attributes of receiving more pure revelation.
> Jesus Christ defends the book, and the Holy Spirit leads
> me in personal defense.
That is what they all say.
> That others may confuse my own
> words with the words of revelations I write is something
> which terrified me, and made me run away from the labor.
This is more rare for someone to acknowledge this, and speaks of a significant
measure of humility on your part that I find refreshing.
> But God brought me back, and said "I will justify these
> words, not you."
And that is the way it should be. And I would further suggest that as the Lord
"justifies" the words that he will likewise remove some of the
not-so-pure stuff that came as a result of your being human and having that
filter imposed in your writings by virtue of your mortality. And I would dare
say that one of the clarifications that the Lord will provide is that this
John the Baptist ministry through you is not the only one and only mighty and
strong ministry, but that you do indeed have some great things to say that are
of worth and are indeed part of bringing about the Zion for which we all
earnestly seek.
> > Hence, in seeking to capture this ministry of yours, I
> > chose the verbiage, "mantle of John the Baptist (?)".
> >
> > What am I missing here?
>
> Nothing. You missed nothing, and as Jordan commented,
> gave a concise summary of the Elijah Message, clearly
> written by one who loves and serves God and seeks the
> truth. If I compliment you here, then I run the risk
> of 'flattering' you into the way I see things, and so I
> will not speak about the quality of your analysis. But I
> will say that if you, Sterling, are given the authority
> to pronounce me as carrying the "mantle of John the
> Baptist," then I will know it because there is no
> question mark following. Until then, it is speculation,
> of which I want no part.
Sorry, but that question mark is what precedes the answer. It is part of the
revelatory process. What I am saying with the question mark is "I don't
know if this is the case, but there is something here worth our consideration,
both for possibly answering that question, and for learning from the life of
another person -- truth and error -- and for gleaning truth as it is
found." Another thing I'm hoping to communicate with the question mark is
my disagreement with some of your paradigm as it pertains to John the Baptist
(via your dictation) being "THE" only one might and strong.
Nothing wrong with the question mark.
> We do not know all things: remember, when the Pharisees
> came to John the Baptist, and asked if he were Elijah,
> he said "No." Yet Jesus Christ later said that he was
> Elijah. Apparently, John the Baptist knew only a portion
> of his mission.
Excellent example. Another point illustrated here that supports what I am
trying to say is that John was wrong to say he was not Elijah. That did not
disqualify him as a servant of God, but it shows that he did not fully
understand what his mission entailed in relation to prophecy.
> In sum, this is an opportunity for me to clarify that I
> serve God, I am a co-laborer with John the Baptist, who
> cried "Repentance" in the wilderness, and I am able to
> say these things by the grace of Jesus Christ, who
> lifted me personally from the gutter. Praise God.
>
> -Jared.
Would to God that all the Lord's people were prophets.
This is not the day for one person to show off while everyone else grovels
beneath them. I know you know that, and you are not seeking for that, but your
'one and only' interpretation leans to that end of the pendulum.
I'm not suggesting hat you question the "revelations" you received
-- only your interpretation of them. I am calling upon you and everyone else
thus afflicted (with the one and only syndrome), to consider the possibility
that your mission is meant to commingle with many others like it, and that the
whole will be far more grand than any of its parts alone -- and that so long
as you approach your ministry as if it is the one and only epitome, then you
inhibit the work of God which intends for you to do working with others and
recognize the value of their work along side of yours.
I'm not conjecturing as a mere idle observer either, for I've been in immersed
in this paradigm for some 14 years.
Heck, my 'revelations' given me through faith (to use comparable wording to
what you have used) have me being Heavenly Father come in the flesh among the
Mormons, on a parallel today with the Son of God coming among the Jews
anciently (first shall be last, last shall be first). It's hard to top that
view of 'one mighty and strong.' So you can see why it is so easy for me to
relate to your paradigm (and to see through it). I would dare say that I have
an even larger collection of reasons to believe this 'revelation' about myself
than you do regarding your 'revelation.' Whether or not I do does not abrogate
my point. I now realize that I am but a portion of that manifestation, and
that it in its fullness the 'one mighty and strong' phenomenon will be much
larger than just me and the things the Lord and his angels have brought forth
at my hand. Much, much, larger -- including you and so many like you -- to the
extent that we align ourselves with the will and purposes of God, as dictated
to us by our conscience.
Meanwhile, what a trip it is as we try and distinguish between brothers on the
path and those wandering in strange roads.
Sincerely,
Sterling D. Allan
July 21, 2001
