From: Sterling D. Allan <sterlingda@greaterthings.com>
To: David's Outcasts <davids_outcasts@listbot.com>;
SDA Friends list <SDA_friends@listbot.com>;
Greater Things Newsletter <Greater_Things@listbot.com>
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 7:52 AM
Subject: {888} Nation/race personalities compared to stages of growth from
childhood to adulthood
David's Outcasts - http://www.GreaterThings.com/OpenForum/Davids_Outcasts.htm
Walt,
I personally believe there is a tremendous amount to be gained by such a
discussion as the distinctions of strengths, weaknesses, differences between
the different nations and races of the earth. Getting to know them is
like getting to know one another. It is not to become separate but to
grow together. It is not to build barriers but to remove them. It
is like courtship, not divorce.
Love comes not just from knowing the good things about one another, but in
being aware of the ugly too and loving anyway. That is a solid love,
with nothing to hide. It enables the blessed nakedness that marriage
symbolizes.
I say that such a discussion could be wonderful.
I would begin by pointing out what is probably the biggest difference, the
primary dividing line of individuality, and that would be the broad generality
of East versus West. East represents mystical, intuitive, whereas West
represents analytical, cognitive. Right brain and left brain, male and
female.
Yet in drawing that distinction, I think immediately of the Native
Americans who fit much more into the "East" description with their
intuitive connection with things spiritual and their profound reverence for
all living creatures. Could we say that this "East vs. West"
distinction could also be demarcated by "Colored vs. White"?
It seems to me that despite national boundaries, people of color seem to be
more right-brained than those of a Caucasian complexion. So perhaps the
primary distinction is not between East and West, but is superseded by the
more encompassing colored and white distinction.
In making such a distinction, I must say that my love for people of color
increases even more because of my reverence and sense of value for the
intuitive nature, which I find difficult to foster in myself. It's like
the husband who venerates his wife for her unique qualities which synergize
with his in a yin/yang manner.
Another broad brush stroke, but substantially more specific than the first
one just discussed, is the Mideastern nations and races. I'm thinking of
the Arab people and those in India, as well as the Jewish people who stem from
and headquarter in that region. It seems to me that they have an extreme
male dominance complex, which suppresses women and shuns their equality -- not
in a sense of sameness, but of value. Religiously, they are way back in
the law of Moses, with a rigid legality that does not have much room for
grace. Their strength, be it noted, is in their piety toward God and
their congeniality toward one another. It seems they have very strong
family unity and deep traditions that tie generations together.
The Negro races of Africa provide another broad brush of characterization,
which like with any other generality is certainly to find exceptions at every
turn in the individuals who make up those nations.
To me, they seem very child-like and innocent. Pre-Law of Moses
legality as described for the previous characterization. They are
extremely loving and trusting, yet at the same time their lack of interest in
things intellectual opens them to exploitation on every hand by scheming
dictators, who rape the land and the people in a continual scene of
discontent; while if given to benevolent leadership they would probably be
among the most delightful places on earth. Like young children, they
would do great under the supervision of loving and understanding parents, but
may easily fly into contention when left without that loving
supervision. As a people, they seem to excel in love of music, rhythm,
dancing, and physical agility -- just as a child who is so limber and who so
freely sings or dances without inhibition.
In the spirit of "except ye become as a child, ye cannot enter into
the kingdom of God," these people provide us with an outstanding example
to follow.
Latin America provides us with yet another opportunity to consider a broad
brush description of unique characteristics of an entire people generally
speaking, though again, within that culture exceptions are going to run the
entire gamut.
In the chronology of a person from birth to adulthood, as I placed the
African people in the early childhood stage of innocence and vital love for
life, and the Mideast peoples perhaps more in a late childhood, early
adolescence stage where rules and guidelines are the schoolmaster; I would
place the Latinos in between these two stages, say at middle childhood.
They are not quite as innocent as the African peoples, but they are not as
rigid in rules as the Mideastern peoples. They are developing an
understanding of the need for rules and discipline, but still have the
innocence of childhood so as to be able to enjoy the zest of life.
In pondering who the late childhood, early teens in this analogy of the
peoples of the earth in different stages of growth would be, the Asian
cultures come to mind. They are still comfortable in a rigidity of rules
and structure, but there is a beginning of toying with independent thinking
and a tiny dabbling in the exploration of defiance. They are more
comfortable and compatible with the tyranny that rules over them than most any
other people of the earth, though they would thrive far more under the loving
hand of a free government capable of exerting a firm love without stifling the
free spirit. Japan is much closer in manifesting such a climate than
China, though Korea probably excels beyond them all in this ideal, which is
manifest in the turbulent history they have exhibited in the last century as
they have thrown off the various tyrannies that have attempted to control
them, from China, then from Japan, then from Russia.
In pondering the next stage of teen years, continuing with this metaphor, I
think of the Asian/Caucasian peoples of the "former" Soviet
Republics, who are yet in the bondage of the law, but are more apt to exert
their independence and defiance, and who thus receive a heavy hand of
oppression to keep them in line. They, more than the Asian countries,
would benefit from a loving firmness more than the brutality to which they are
subjected, though their defiant spirit has a love/hate collusional
relationship with that brutality and thus helps to perpetuate it.
As for a late teens, young adult phase in this analogy, I think of the
European peoples. They have exerted their independence, left the
protective care of dictatorial parents, and have achieved a significant degree
of freedom, though they are yet in a rebellious phase to a certain extent,
rivaling in their "liberties," and thus delving into various
excesses. Their challenge is to learn the need to put off their natural
man and to receive a new heart through the baptism of the Spirit, so that the
body might come into subjection of the Spirit of God, rather than being the
master of the passions.
The final stage of development I see, using this metaphor, is early young
adulthood. The nations or peoples I see in this phase are the
Americans as well as the Canadians to a lesser extent. They exerted
their independence earlier than the Europeans, and have excelled in indulging
in their liberties even more than the Europeans. And as a corollary,
they are more ripe for a baptism of fire as they are coming to their senses
and realizing the need for a transformation in their life.
That then brings us to a prophetic statement as to what is in store next.
Having established this comparison between growing from childhood into
young adulthood, I would now like to introduce another corollary metaphor --
that of entering into marriage, at which stage one has now arrived at full
adulthood and is ready to propagate their own offspring.
The husband in this case is the kingdom of heaven, and the bride is the
kingdom of God which will be established on earth -- which is just around the
corner in becoming a reality.
We are in the stage of preparing for that wedding. And the current
suitor, even the kingdom of Babylon, who stakes its claim on the bride, will
not give up without a fight. But the mighty change that will come upon
the people who come forth with a broken heart and contrite spirit, will free
them from the chains of their former lover, their carnal master.
The remnant who come out of Babylon, especially of America, but also from
all nations of the earth, will establish that kingdom of God on earth,
creating this purified bride, with which the kingdom of heaven will then unite
in marriage.
This united husband and wife will then reign with benevolence over all the
earth, administering to the various peoples of the earth what is best suited
to their needs, their strengths, their weaknesses.
All the peoples of the earth will become united as one body, each
contributing to the whole in a marvelous symphony which will be called Zion.
I don't get tears much anymore because I am so used to learning wonderful
things, both from my personal studies as well as from what others impart, but
I have tears in my eyes now, and a lump in my throat as I ponder on the beauty
of this revelation.
So as we anticipate this wedding, with all the jitters and all the
distractions, perhaps this analogy can help us put things in their proper
perspective.
That our hearts be inclined to God and the pending wedding that awaits us
is my humble prayer which I offer in the name of Jesus Christ, our Savior and
Redeemer. Amen.
Sterling D. Allan
Catalyst
Correspondence
From: Weappel7@aol.com
<Weappel7@aol.com>
To: davids_outcasts@listbot.com
<davids_outcasts@listbot.com>
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: {888} Nation/race personalities
David's Outcasts - http://www.GreaterThings.com/OpenForum/Davids_Outcasts.htm
I fully recognize the fact that in today's modern 'PC' environment, discussion
of the nations/races is a charged topic, even more so than gender discussions.
However, differences DO exist and should be understood, I believe.
My kids, going now to public schools, (we couldn't afford private anymore
and my wife couldn't keep up with home schooling again at this point in time)
think that I am racist because I don't think it's wise to intermarry--it
brings a lot of baggage IMO. My quick reply is that I didn't create the
peoples of the earth, God did. And so there must be some cosmic reason
and purpose behind this reality. I say to them then that God must be
racist to have created them yet they/we are ALL His children. It's no
small secret to any scripture reader that God has commanded the peoples of the
earth to remain (for the most part) distinct in their identities. Why?
If however this topic is TOO hot for the folks in this forum or its
moderator, just let me know and I'll move on to other subjects. Perhaps
there is nothing to be gained here....or is there?
Walt
In a message dated 11/10/99 23:56:56, sterlingda@greaterthings.com
writes:
<<I find it an interesting study to look at nations and races of
people as a whole, comparing them to individuals with certain personalities,
complete with strengths and weaknesses. Each is part of the body of
Christ. Some might be more advanced in one area than another, as well
as having areas where they need improvement.
Some might be more advanced spiritually, some intellectually, though that
does not make them better or worse than another.
Sterling>>
From: [name withheld]
To: Allan, Sterling <sterlingda@GreaterThings.com>
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 8:06 AM
Hi Sterling, That was a very well written piece on
nationalities. I can imagine that some PC-types will slam you for being
"racist," but I sense some truth in the points you're making.
From: Benjamin (Dex) Devey <dexd@natr.com>
To: 'Sterling D. Allan' <sterlingda@greaterthings.com>
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 9:14 AM
Subject: RE: {888} Nation/race personalities compared to stages of growth from
childhood to adulthood
Thank you Sterling. You give something important to ponder.
It seems that virtually every religion in the world isolates its members from
other races and cultures. God, the Father of all the children of earth, would
paternally embrace all of His children into his circle of kinship.
The closer we can come to doing the same, as you suggest, the closer we can
come to partaking of God's truth.
Thanks for the post.
Benjamin
"Learning Love and Life" is a weekly free-mail newsletter on love
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Relation
of the Zodiak and 12 Tribes
From: RWBH <rwbh@telusplanet.net>
To: David's Outcasts <davids_outcasts@listbot.com>
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: {888} Nation/race personalities compared to stages of growth from
childhood to adulthood
David's Outcasts - http://www.GreaterThings.com/OpenForum/Davids_Outcasts.htm
Sterling:
Sincerely enjoyed your essay on racial allegory. It rings true with me,
from analysis of the different peoples, and maturity levels, and especially
your conclusions about the united husband and wife reigning with benevolence
over the earth.
<snip>
You know, you can also develop a wonderful overall allegory for peoples
based not on genetic make up i.e. black, caucasian, mongolian etc. but rather
by astrological signs, Aries, Libra, Pisces etc. Hopefully by now you realize
Bruce R. McKonkie's views of astrology as being Satan's imitation of the
atheistic material world science of astronomy is his own misinformed
understanding. The 12 signs of the zodiac are the celestial equivalent of the
12 tribes of Israel. Not in competition with them, but a similar framework or
organziation. It was just a passing comment, not something I want to start any
arguements over with anyone.
So in closing on that subject, just please do keep in mind such things as
the fact that all things fit together in a great unity; for example that the
One we call the Lamb of God was born, as we are privileged to know, on 6
April, making Jesus an Aries (and not a capricorn like that world version by
Kris Kristoferson "Jesus Was A Capricorn"). No Jesus was not a goat
Capricorn, he was a child aries, a child ram, whose yunguns are called lambs.
<snip>
brian
Enter
Reincarnation, First shall Be Last and Last, First
From: ren and susan carter <crtrfam@manti.com>
To: David's Outcasts <davids_outcasts@listbot.com>
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: {888} Nation/race personalities compared to stages of growth from
childhood to adulthood
David's Outcasts - http://www.GreaterThings.com/OpenForum/Davids_Outcasts.htm
This speaks to me why reincarnation would be desired--one would want to
experience all stages so to speak--or all races. There is also another
way to look at it: every people has had it's chance as being the race
through which the greatest revelation of truth is given. I have read it
somewhere (it escapes me right now where) that the black race was given it
first( Africa), then the yellow (China), then the brown (India), then the red
(Aztec-Mayan) and now the white (US and Europe). "The first shall
be last and the last shall be first." I think also of the returning to
childlikeness in our old age. Perhaps that is why the blacks are so
childlike. They are coming back full circle. I know that I find
great joy in learning about new cultures. I learn so much truth from
each culture and it opens my view even further to God's truth. Susan
Reigning
as "Kings and Queens" More like Live and Let Live
From: Spencer Hill <spencerhill@hotmail.com>
To: sterlingda@greaterthings.com
<sterlingda@greaterthings.com>
Cc: crtrfam@manti.com <crtrfam@manti.com>
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 4:46 PM
Subject: recent post
Hello Sterling,
I have read your recent post and found it very interesting. It fits very
nicely within the concept of reincarnation.
A year ago I would have very much liked participating on your website. I am
not saying that I have grown beyond the philosophy that I have observed your
participants promoting, but I really did have to leave Mormonism to find a
place of comfort where I could let my mind recover and catch my breath. I
perceive that you are very much in favor of "pure Mormonism" as
opposed to what we have today. (perfecting the mistakes of
the past sort of thing) I applaud your gift to see beyond the sanitization
of original doctrine. My family cannot see any sanitization at all, only
wonderful, euphoric, mindless obedience to men in black suits with stiff
shirts and ties.
Again, I enjoyed our visit on Sunday last. I watched Susan and Ren that day
very carefully. You, knowing them better than I could possibly learn in one
sitting, must surely have noticed the freedom they have in great abundance. I
recognized it instantly. Sometimes people say they are free, but they don't
really know freedom. Susan and Ren know freedom, and they know it as I know
it. It is not a freedom of recklessness or disregard for rules and basic laws.
It is a freedom to perform an act out of love rather than fear or duty, and a
freedom to be motivated from innocence rather than pride. Some people say they
are free, and some people know they are free. Susan and Ren know they are free
and they know why they can say that.
The reason I bring this up is due to one line from your post that struck me
strangely as I read it. I know that you are referring to the Church and Christ
and really has nothing to do with what I am about to say, but it reminded me
of the attitude of the TLC in their desire to do a little
"Administering" of their own. It was this:
"This united husband and wife will then reign with benevolence over
all the earth, administering to the various peoples of the earth what is best
suited to their needs, their strengths, their weaknesses."
I have developed a phobia about administering. Putting my Bishop experience
squarely and distantly behind me, I want never to administer to anyone again,
especially if I have to determine what is best suited to their needs. For now,
in my finite mind, I have a hard enough time knowing what is best suited to my
own needs. So it is with your needs and with their needs. Judge not that ye be
not judged was said for good reason. I do not know what "their"
needs are or what "your" needs are, and so I give everyone the
freedom to decide how best to suit their needs, as I likewise want my freedom
to decide my own.
This world, or one in which I want to be found, will be administered in and
by and through freedom. That is the greatest gift Christ could have ever
presented us with. I will choose to be one with God, not because of fear of
what will come from the alternative choice, or because a prophet tells me that
this is my path to God. I will be one with him because of my desire (love) and
my freedom to choose rather than to have someone administer that choice for
me. When I am fully ready, when I have experienced all I can, and made my path
after His pattern, I will know Him. That is the blessing of freedom.
I am not making myself very clear I know. Anyway, I enjoyed the good read.
I appreciate your hard work and effort in study.
Spencer
Mixing
of the Races
From: ren and susan carter <crtrfam@manti.com>
To: David's Outcasts <davids_outcasts@listbot.com>
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: {888} Nation/race personalities compared to stages of growth from
childhood to adulthood
David's Outcasts - http://www.GreaterThings.com/OpenForum/Davids_Outcasts.htm
I guess I would have to say Walt's comment about not mixing the races is
interesting: I taught my children that marriage within your
culture is hard enough, you are only adding difficulties in marrying outside
of it. But now I wonder: if in the end times we are pushing for
unity, perhaps the literal mixing of the races is helping to lead to
that? Susan
PS It certainly makes for some exotic beauties ala Mariah Carey and
many others
